The director of `Dreams ”, Michel Franco, explains why his drama Jessica Chastain had to be so brutal and cruel

The latest film by Franco by Michel, “Dreams”, is sure to start conversations. With Jessica Chastain as a rich American and new coming Isaac Hernández as a Mexican immigrant with an incredible talent for the ballet, he focuses on the heavy relationship that their characters form. Exploring questions of power, mistreatment and loss, he still seeks distribution in the United States, although he was screened as part of the 59th Karlovy Vary International Film Festival this week.

The film marks the second collaboration between Franco and Chastain after the 2023 “Memory” drama, which also had a central history dealing with abuse. However, when this film has found moments of hope, the “dreams” are intentionally cruel, building an end that left the public of the divided festival. To hear it from Franco, he would not have it otherwise.

In an interview with Thewrap, the filmmaker discussed working again with Chastain, why he is not interested in playing by conventional rules and a conversation he had with Hernández concerning the concerns he raised.

Without entering the spoilers, how did you talk about this film with your employees? How was it when you first went to Jessica Chastain after working together on “memory”?
The way it happened with Jessica was on a lunch break, I told her that I had this other idea that I was not necessarily giving her. Jessica and I have a very good relationship, so it’s very easy to speak without having to think too much with the way of saying things. Both when I direct it and in life, everything is very simple. So I told him the thing without the guy being a ballet dancer, just an immigrant. She really liked it.

I didn’t know what the end was going to be, exactly. I only understand that he was a ballet dancer, so it could be the end. But something similar was going to happen. The first thing Jessica said immediately is that she couldn’t be more different from “memory”, so it’s a good reason to say yes. In addition, we both appreciate “memory”. She immediately understood that she would represent a character who would challenge the public and that she wanted to do it. She does not want to be comfortable making pleasures of the crowd.

She plays one of her most cruel, almost hateful, characters,, but buried under repressed desire and shame. How did you build the scenes where it would go from sex to violence, sometimes at the same time?
Well, we both had exactly the same film in our heads. The same goes for Isaac, the new comrade, the Ballet dancer – we all had the same film in our heads. The way I work with Jessica in particular, or Tim Roth, with actors with this amount of experience and talent, I do not direct them much. We talk a lot after reading the script, we go from stage to stage and discuss. But there are a lot of surprise elements. I don’t know what they’re going to do on the day. We don’t repeat either. So, every morning, it’s just me and the actors and I say to them: “What would you do?” Action”. No direction. Jessica has done her homework, she still knows what she will suggest.

Once it makes sense, I invite the director of photography in the room and we determine how to shoot it. So yes, that’s about it. It becomes interesting, I run in chronological order, so week three or four, you can almost see the film from start to the past. And Jessica would join me every Saturday and we watched and watched the film. She therefore also invested in narration to this extent and we can change our decisions according to what we see. We generally add scenes that are not scripted or we simply change things where we realize that we repeat ourselves a little and so on. She can also see how her character comes to life. If something does not work for her, we will thank or anything. Not that I do what she wants.

You are collaborators.
Absolutely. If I am tired behind the wheel, I have the impression that it is better to let it take the over and run for a little while. I trust him for this measure.

Regarding the component of sexual violence and assault, what did conversation look like?
It was present from zero. In this initial conversation, I knew that she would do something very aggressive for him, then confesses, then something else would come back. The shift in the dynamics of power had been there from the very beginning. It was an inevitable and terrible direction that everything inevitably takes.

Jessica also knows that I am one of the few filmmakers to go far. I mean, only if necessary, only if it makes sense. But we don’t do it about it. I think that many filmmakers would like to do it and they have the courage and the actors probably too, but the studios and the producers often prevent this from happening. Because they plan to please the public and redemption and stuff like that. In a way, I take advantage of the cinematographic conventions and how much the films are lame. They facilitate the surprising an audience.

Do you think this approach made distribution difficult? I particularly think in the context of America with questions about immigration.
No, I don’t think. This is the first film – I know that this is not what you are asking for – which comes out on a larger scale in the Czech Republic. And it’s fantastic. I think it has to do with the body I built, and the film attracted enough attention to make it happen. It is the same for many countries where my films are doing well and they continue to find an audience. Times are difficult for the distribution of films. Yes, of course, if I make a more conventional film, it would be easier to enter the dominant American current.

Isn’t that your interest?
Well, no, I would like it to happen and sell 50 million tickets. But only without sacrificing my vision. If I do what I have to do and it succeeds, I am very happy. But I would not change anything by trying to continue the commercial success.

There are history of demonized immigrants as rapists, such as violent sexual predators. Has there been a concern about this story and the way your film is committed with this in a very explicit way?
He was discussed, mainly with Isaac because he was going to play the representative. For him, it was disturbing. But I told him that I was never going to make the film where all Americans are described as harm and that immigrants are simply good, with only positive qualities. It would be bulls. So he made sense on the page and we continued to go in this direction.

There is also a scene where the Mexican authorities left immigrants from the countries of Latin America and Venezuela to burn alive because they start a riot. This is based on a real incident that occurred in Mexico where 80 people died exactly as it is represented in the film. There is therefore also this additional layer where the Mexican authorities deal with other immigrants such as Mexicans and others are treated in the United States. I think it is important to show all slides of things.

When you said it was disturbing for Isaac, how was it disturbing?
Well, exactly for what you said. He was afraid to prove that Trump is right. I told him I didn’t care. I care about what this man would do when he learns that he was betrayed in this way. She says that she did it out of love and that he was stripped of power, he was helpless forever, he was played with it. It seemed to be a reaction that his character would have. I don’t justify it, of course.

What was his answer?
He was also reassured by Jessica. He was convinced that it should happen and that we could not make the film we wanted to make without that. Isaac therefore had to agree. I mean, he knew it from zero, but it was his biggest point when he read the script. He wanted to make the film, but he never played before, so for him, it was interesting and stimulating.