NPR’s Scott Detrow speaks with Sen. Lisa Murkowski about the possible loss of SNAP benefits due to the shutdown.
SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Tomorrow – November 1 – is the day that federal food assistance will be significantly reduced or reduced for tens of millions of people across the United States. The loss of SNAP benefits would be just the latest casualty of the now month-long federal government shutdown.
Senate Democrats and the Trump administration remain locked in, and as federal workers find themselves without paychecks and now people will begin to find themselves without essential food aid, some lawmakers have talked about more narrowly targeted bills to maintain specific parts of government funding. Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski participated in these and other discussions, as she often does, and joins us now. Hello, senator.
LISA MURKOWSKI: Hey. How are you this afternoon?
DETROW: Let’s start with this. SNAP is a large program. Some 66,000 Alaskans depend on it. What are you telling your constituents about what to expect and why these benefits are disappearing?
MURKOWSKI: Well, everyone watched the news about this extended shutdown. They see these deadlines looming. It was widely reported that SNAP benefits would end at the end of this month. That’s why my efforts have been to make this government open. Let’s make sure that not only are SNAP benefits paid, but our military gets paid, our Coast Guard, our federal workers, our air traffic controllers.
But we’re sitting here the day before these benefits are due, and the secretary is telling us the well is dry. So it’s, I think, a dire situation. You mentioned the number in Alaska. More than 66,000 Alaskans rely on SNAP benefits. Nationwide, more than 12 percent of the population relies on SNAP benefits.
DETROW: Yes.
MURKOWSKI: Forty-one million people is a lot and it’s a real harm to real people.
DETROW: I want to talk about the smaller bills intended just to fund SNAP, the broader state negotiations. But first, I want to ask this question – and this is related to a federal court case that is being decided – this question of whether the U.S. Department of Agriculture could fund SNAP right now with emergency funding. We’ve seen the Trump administration move funds around to continue paying the military, for example. First of all, do you think the administration has the authority to keep SNAP running over the weekend?
MURKOWSKI: Well, they have contingency funds, and we asked very specific questions about the ability to spend those contingency funds to help pay for SNAP benefits or at least partial benefits. Again, the USDA and the Secretary of Agriculture said this would not happen.
I have seen various statements indicating that these contingency funds should be reserved for disasters. We just had a disaster in Alaska. And so for SNAP recipients in Alaska who have suffered this disaster, yes, we want to make sure that they have some level of assistance or relief there.
But I think it is – it’s important to recognize that just this afternoon, the courts issued a ruling ordering the Trump administration to pay food stamps during this shutdown, saying it must distribute the aid using what it calls an emergency fund package. I don’t know what it is and where it could come from.
DETROW: And from what I understand, it wouldn’t start until Monday at a minimum. So I think anyway, we’re looking…
MURKOWSKI: Yeah.
DETROW: …The weekend without those perks.
MURKOWSKI: Well, and keep in mind that when you have a break in programs, you’ll often see a gap. That’s why I thought it was so important that we didn’t enter this place in the first place…
DETROW: Well…
MURKOWSKI: …Not to find ourselves in a situation where these benefits could not be paid and these people would be left hanging and wondering how they could feed their families.
DETROW: Let’s zoom out for a moment, because the Trump White House doesn’t negotiate. Senate Democrats say they will not vote to reopen the government until there is a guarantee that these health care credits will be extended. You know, you know, sometimes it seems like the Senate membership is dwindling and they’re having conversations on both sides of the aisle. Do you see a clear path forward, or even the beginning of a path forward, at this point?
MURKOWSKI: Yes. Yes. And it’s not like we’re just starting to map out a path. There have been quite a few people on both sides of the aisle engaging in constructive dialogue about how we will get through this shutdown and what it will look like. Good and constructive conversations are happening. They continued. They are happening now. And…
DETROW: Is there a most likely path? I know negotiations can change quickly, but is there a most likely path? Is this a short-term spending bill? Is this a guarantee of a future vote? For example, what do you think is the most likely way to…
MURKOWSKI: And…
DETROW: …Move again?
MURKOWSKI: I think you’re going to see an effort to ensure that we start moving forward on our appropriations bills that we’ve already submitted to the full committee. Keep in mind that we wouldn’t be talking about a SNAP problem if we could have passed the farm appropriations bill into law. This has already been referred to the committee. Just hold a conference, and there would be no problem. So whether it’s funding the military, let’s get the defense appropriations bill passed. If it’s about funding air traffic controllers, let’s pass the appropriations bill.
So I hope you will see a path where we move our appropriations bills through the process here in the Senate, through the conference that we will have with the House – an opportunity for us to address, as a Senate, the ACA premium tax credits and the expiration that we see on that at the end of this year. And so that’s obviously part of the mix.
The bill we voted on in the House is an extension until November 21. That won’t give us enough time. How far we will go towards the end of the year is another matter of debate. But there is…
DETROW: What is your confidence level that this will be done by the first of the following month, December 1?
MURKOWSKI: My confidence level on this – that this will be done by December 1 – is very high.
DETROW: Very good. This is Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. Thank you so much.
MURKOWSKI: OK, thank you very much, Scott.
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