For years, the Kremlin has been cracking down on the Internet. He banned Facebook and Instagram. Today, the company offers a new application called “Max” for a wide range of Internet services.
ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:
For years, the Kremlin has been cracking down on Internet use in Russia. Facebook and Instagram are banned. This slowed down YouTube, making it harder for users to access. Russian authorities are now waging a campaign to get every citizen to download a state-controlled messaging app called MAX, capable of making calls, sending text messages, transferring money, just about anything you can think of.
To discuss the implications of this situation, we called investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov. He is the co-author of “The Red Web,” which discusses how the Kremlin attempts to control Internet use in Russia. Andrei, welcome.
ANDREI SOLDATOV: Hello, thank you for inviting me.
FLORIDO: Tell us about this application that the Kremlin offers – MAX. What is it and how does it work?
SOLDATOV: So the idea is to create several large applications that would replace Western applications for the daily use of Russian citizens. And MAX was designated by the Russian government in July as a national messenger, meaning it would and should be an access point for ordinary Russians to all kinds of online services, from banks to state-provided services.
FLORIDO: Step back a second to give us a little more context here. Why is this something Vladimir Putin would want to impose on Russian citizens?
SOLDATOV: Well, I think the government’s logic is that it finally understood that the biggest threat posed by the Internet is to numbers, that some sensitive information could be shared almost immediately by millions and millions of people. And to do this, to bring these people under control, the government basically wants to re-educate the Russian population, force them to use and rely, in their daily lives, on something that they would turn to if faced with something truly dramatic and extraordinary.
For example, if you have a drone attack in your city, you will immediately be asked to post something and you will obviously use the app that you already have on your phone, and the government will have the ability to terminate any conversation on that app. This is exactly what they want to do.
FLORIDO: So it’s potentially a lot easier for the government to censor the kinds of things Russians talk about among themselves…
SOLDIER. – Absolutely.
FLORIDO: …Make sure they don’t reach Western audiences. How are Russians reacting to this pressure to download this application? I guess they understand that, you know, using it means they could and probably will be monitored. Why would they use it?
SOLDATOV: Well, at the moment we don’t see much enthusiasm about this application. For example, just today we learned that in the city of Yekaterinburg, students of the local university refused to install this application and are now under threat of expulsion from the university.
FLORIDO: Beyond privacy, are there other potential losses to Russian freedoms that would result from the use of a state-run super app?
SOLDATOV: Yes, absolutely, because once you install this application, your device is completely compromised. So it’s not just about the messages you exchange when you use this app. This is your device.
The other problem is that no one really understands what scope this application has, for example, on your accounts in banks and state services or on services provided by the government. Again, this makes things very, very dangerous.
But I think the main reason the government is pushing this app is just to have the ability to silence a conversation about anything sensitive in the country. They would have a way to end this conversation, to end it completely.
FLORIDO: Well, I spoke with Andrei Soldatov. He is a longtime Russian investigative journalist and co-author of “The Red Web,” a book about how the Kremlin is trying to control the Internet in Russia. Andrei, thanks for joining us.
SOLDIER: Oh, thank you for inviting me.
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