The National Gallery of Victoria in Melbourne has made the practice of pairing two artists together for an exhibition something of a signature. Past partners have included Andy Warhol and Ai Weiwei as well as Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat. This allows the museum to tell three stories: those of each artist as an individual, and then one of their overlapping experiences, the center of the Venn diagram, if you will. Their new chapter features two fashion designers (both firsts for the museum), Vivienne Westwood and Rei Kawakubo, who interact for the first time.
Westwood|Kawakubo, which opened last week and runs through April 19, delves into the complex worlds created by these two designers. Each has disrupted fashion in their own way, challenging ideals of beauty, gender, taste, form, function, and more. Although the two were born less than a year apart (Westwood in England in 1941, Kawakubo in Japan in 1942) and produced works around the same time, the exhibition is organized thematically rather than chronologically. Key themes include “Punk and Provocation”, “The Body: Freedom and Restraint” and “The Power of Clothes”, punctuated by defining collections from the 1970s to the present like Westwood’s Anglomania and Kawakubo’s Lumps and Bumps. There has even been a collaboration between the two since 2002.
But then, “seeing them in parallel also allowed us to really bring out the points of difference,” says Katie Somerville, NGV curator of fashion and textiles. She does just that, comparing and contrasting the two fashion legends in tandem with her new exhibition.
These are obviously women who resisted the status quo. They were doing full-on punk. They have subverted so many different ideas, but how are their tactics of subversion different?
They are both self-taught. There’s something interesting about the kind of freedom that a designer offers in terms of being able to innovate on their own terms and not feeling so pressured to do things the right way. But Westwood embodied punk in his work. She was apparently a very engaging and proactive spokesperson for her ideas. With Kawakubo, she’s not really interested in people focusing on her. She wants her work to speak for itself. So even in terms of how work is experienced, I think that’s a major difference.
For Westwood, looking back was undoubtedly very important to her, whether it was fashion, history, social history, decorative arts, painting or political history. She was a voracious reader, consumer of reference materials, and explorer of museum collections. Of course, what she does with it next is radically new and different and absolutely her own. Whereas with Kawakubo, she finds it hard to never look back. Many times it’s about starting from scratch and sort of unlearning the practices of making clothes.
When Kawakubo’s belongings arrived, we as curators did our usual job: unpacking, cataloging and documenting them. We have to choose words to categorize and describe each piece, but there were a number of pieces for which we didn’t have the terminology. This was profound for me as a conservative. I have worked at the NGV for 30 years. I’ve cataloged thousands of objects, but there’s always a reference point for me to say, “Oh, that’s a dress” or “I can see where the reference is here.” But there was no reference for these. I think that’s one of the striking differences in terms of production.
Naomi Campbell walks the runway for Vivienne Westwood’s Anglomania collection for fall 1993
Were there any parallels or overlaps that surprised you?
They actually collaborated on a collection together in 2002. Collaborations are popping up now, but that was 23 years ago. Then it hit me. They were obviously aware of each other’s work, but it’s a very different thing for two then-established designers to show respect and trust to the extent that they will literally collaborate on something that ends up with a label bearing both of their names. I think freedom is so essential to both of them – we keep coming back to it. None of them would call themselves feminists, nor would they, but that sense of agency, independence, and non-conformity is such a strong point of contact.
They both had incredible careers that spanned several decades. What is the Venn diagram of how these two women have aged in their careers?
Kawakubo is now over 80 years old and, I would say, at the peak of his career in many ways, even as a businessman. I think it’s amazing how much she actually is responsible for every aspect of what happens under the Dover Street Market umbrella. There’s an unwavering integrity there in standing your ground, doing something in a particular way, not chasing numbers or popularity. It’s that kind of unwavering belief in a particular way of doing things.
I was doing a Q&A with Stephen Jones this week, and he was talking about how over 20 years ago, when Vivienne was starting to be very outspoken about blunt topics, in her very punk way, people were kind of ignoring what she was saying. For her, it’s about this ability to know what we need or want before we can even imagine it for ourselves.
When I show people around the exhibition, I have to remind them what the 70s and 80s were like in terms of what other designers were doing, what was on the catwalk, what people looked like on the street. It’s an opportunity to reflect on the influence of these designers, whether it’s underwear as outerwear, corsets in evening wear, sneakers on the catwalk, men and women on the catwalk simultaneously. These are fundamentals that we take for granted. I think they were incredibly brave and courageous, creatively. Only in someone who does this do we experience the kind of change that ultimately changes the way we all get dressed in the morning.
A look from the Comme des Garçons, Tokyo 18th Century Punk collection from fall 2016
Did working on this exhibition make you realize that catwalks have value, and not just as commercial space?
Absolutely. With the runway looks that Kawakubo gave us, which are mostly from the last 10 or 15 years, they are just awesome. Again, these are the purest and purest expressions of his idea. These pieces don’t often end up on a hanger in a store. Typically what you can buy is more of a spread in response to or inspired by these runway looks. But it’s these original pieces that are essential, I think, to what she’s trying to do. So without compromise. This, at least for her, was where the lead was and it is non-negotiable.
The Westwood parade was all about music. It was about performance. It was about the models. You think about all those amazing times, the Sara Stockbridge era. Going through the archives, looking at all these incredible first images, the energy was nothing like what was happening at the same time on other catwalks. Create those moments with the Cafe Society or Anglo Mania collection that are instantly recognizable. They are a platform for discussion and provocation. We hope this continues to be the case.
Sarah Jessica Parker wearing a Vivienne Westwood wedding dress on the set of “Sex and the City: The Movie” in 2007
They were obviously incredible creative artists with so many ideas to share. Why do you think they chose clothing as a medium?
Along with Westwood, she grew up in a family environment where her mother made clothes for her. She eventually returned to making clothes for herself. And when she was a young woman, even before having trained as a teacher, the break with this conventional life came through clothing, dressing to go dancing, to go clubbing. It was something intensely personal. This is also how she explored the world and expressed herself. Likewise, Kawakubo didn’t really have any training in fashion. She started with a rather stylistic background and perspective. She would therefore have understood very very early the transformative power of clothes. And that’s universality, isn’t it? And the accessibility factor which I think for both of them was probably a very important factor.
Who do you think was the punkest?
The punk thing is so intrinsic to both of them. I can’t really separate it. I think with Westwood, for a lot of people, she still holds the title of queen of punk because of that era in the 70s. But in all of Kawakubo’s philosophy and approach as a designer, I can’t think of a more punk individual in terms of the non-conformity and everything to do with gender politics and the shock and novelty that comes with that. Throughout her career, you’d probably have to give it to Kawakubo, but there would definitely be key moments for Westwood where she would be up front.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
