So what was an example of how he was treated?
I mean, these were nasty articles that came out daily. You should go back and see for yourself. You’re the one who writes the articles, right? You should go back and see for yourself. It was a campaign. It was even reported to be a campaign.
So you think asking him to step down was okay, but there shouldn’t have been any nasty articles?
Look, what I’m saying is that it shouldn’t have happened this way.
But should this have happened, or should it not have happened?
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don’t think this should have happened. I think we should have done everything we could, no matter who was at the top of the list, and fought extremely hard. He was the one at the top of the list, and so, I think we should have fought to make sure that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won. That’s what I believed.
When he decided to run in 2023, we also have to remember what was happening at that time. There was no red wave halfway through. In fact, the president and vice president have done better than any incumbent president during their first midterms. The polls predicted that it would be a red wave.
The poll was pretty accurate in 2022, but keep going.
Well, okay, but remember it was reported that there would be a red wave.
You are right, we have talked a lot about the red wave.
So there was no red wave. He was the incumbent and he was the only one to have beaten Donald Trump. These were things that were true and in front of him, and he was encouraged by the Democrats in the leadership to run.
So you are not afraid, even to this day, that Joe Biden could serve as president until January 2029?
I didn’t see anything that could have worried me.
But you watched TV like the rest of us, didn’t you?
I always explain it like this: of course, he was older. Of course he was getting older. He mentioned it. He talked about not speaking as well as he used to. He talked about not walking as well as he used to. No one is saying he hasn’t aged, but he’s someone I’ve engaged with. I saw him every day as White House press secretary, and he was someone who was committed, in addition to his policies, to challenging his staff.
One might imagine that he could do the job until January 2025, but it wasn’t wise to think he could do the job until January 2029, was it?
It’s not for me to say.
What do you mean it’s not your place to say?
No, no, no. Wait, I’ll answer the question. I didn’t see anything to worry about. This is my answer.
Besides the debate and the other things everyone saw?
What I’m telling you is that the debate for me was only one time. I had never seen him like that before.
You write in the book: “He was equally provocative in his interview with [George] Stephanopoulos, although some anonymous Democrats also criticized the appearance, saying it failed to allay their concerns. This interview took place after the debate, but before he gave up. I went back and watched this interview. This is one of the answers he gave: “I, uh… I prepared what I would usually do, sitting down as I did, going back with the foreign leaders or the National Security Council for explicit details. And I realized halfway through, you know, that everything… They quote me the New York Times depressed me, ten points before the debate, nine now, or whatever. The fact is, what I saw was that he also lied twenty-eight times. I couldn’t, I mean, the way the debate went, not – my fault, no one else’s fault – no one else’s fault. When I watched this, I thought, This man should not be president for four years. That’s not to say that I think Donald Trump should be president, but I’m a little surprised that you don’t see what so many people, including so many Democrats, have seen.
I’m not the only person who feels this way. It’s just me talking really loud. I’m the person who says quiet things out loud.
There is a silent minority of people who feel Biden was taken advantage of, and most people don’t want to say it. Is that what you mean?
Let me just say that this is my experience I’m talking about and what I’ve seen. I just want to be very, very clear: on average. I just want to be clear: on average. Not a single interview, not a single debate. On average. I have heard from many, many people who are disappointed by the Democratic Party’s response. I have. I have. And they are citizens. These are people who vote.
Biden also said in that interview, regarding his significant drop in the polls: “That’s not what our polls show… Every pollster I talk to tells me it’s a coin toss. It’s a coin toss.” Apparently, Nancy Pelosi was concerned that Biden wouldn’t get accurate information about what his polling against Trump was showing. Were you concerned that Biden wasn’t getting accurate information on the state of the race?
